How a San Diego Architect's Week Splits Between Design and Everything Else

00:00Baileyin real life it's not exactly the way it is in the movies.

00:02Sean CanningI do way less design than I would like to do

I may be the last generation of architects that knows how to draw

if somebody would've told me how much permitting we would've had to do to get these projects built, I may have switched majors, to be honest

00:13Baileymost people think they know what an architect does: meet with clients, draw floor plans, tour construction sites. But there's actually a lot more that goes into the profession that you might not realize. in today's podcast, we're gonna be discussing several different things that you may not realize about an architect before you hire and ultimately work with one.

Sean, I know you put together a list based on your 15 years of experience or so. We're gonna go over that one by one real quick today, but is there anything you wanted to say before we dive in?

00:48Sean CanningWell, I think the thing that made me consider doing this type of podcast was architects are typically depicted in the media. When you watch TV or movies, it's pretty often that, of the characters is an architect. And when Margaret and I are watching these movies or TV shows, we're always, amazed, like, "Wow, that architect has so much prestige because of his, career." And we always think it's funny because in real life it's not exactly the way it is in the movies.

01:15BaileyOkay.

So let's get started with design, for example. how would you say your design opinions and aesthetic taste has changed over the past 15 years or so in the profession? And do you think it's fair that clients should expect your design taste or whoever architect they hire, their design taste to actually show up in the project?

01:38Sean CanningYeah, I think anytime you're gonna hire somebody, if you're gonna hire an artist, you're gonna expect the final art piece to generally look within their style. you're gonna hire a craftsman who specializes in fine woodwork to do a construction project, you're gonna expect some fine woodwork and some nicely crafted details on that project. I think architects are really no different. through architecture school, I think most students are trying to wrestle with, like, different types of ideals that they will set for themselves in their future career. the one that Margaret and I really gravitated to was the ideals of modernism, is not necessarily making, stark white buildings or rectilinear buildings or things like that, but it's just kind of the principles of form follows function, and not having any more detail than than you need. And I think when you look at most of our projects, you're seeing a high level of organization, which for me translates to a functional layout. so I think whether you're gonna be working in like a Craftsman style or a Spanish Revival style or A modern style, I think you have to start with a functional layout, that's gonna make the structural more efficient and more cost-effective. It's gonna make all of your mechanical systems, your plumbing systems, all more efficient. So I think that's kind of the through line in most of our work. I will say coming right out of college, we were pretty stark modernists, and that was the type of projects we wanted to pursue. And when we did our own projects, because Margaret and I have lived in a couple of the projects that we've designed, projects, when we're designing to our own personal taste, are generally gonna be minimalist. But I will say over the years, our opinions on things have shifted, I think those opinions come from just living in the spaces you design. to say that minimalism is not a great architectural style, but, like in the home we live right now, we have hardwood floors that were installed in the '50s, now Margaret's like, "You know, I've never lived in a home with hardwood floors, and I really like this."

And it does create a lot of warmth. Now, you could fit hardwood floors into a modern or a minimalist home, so that's not really gonna change the style. But the other thing is the more and more craftsman style homes I've worked on, and then in a lot of neighborhoods in San Diego, we have, style Spanish homes or Spanish colonial homes, and the more you start to work on these projects, some of them being remodels, some of them being like additions, and then also just designing ADUs for the backgrounds...

the backyards of these homes. you start to research the style, you understand the connection with modernism, even though it's, it's not a conflicting style, there's a lot of overlap in the styles, and then you begin to gain an appreciation for these styles. I think now, I have 15 years of experience just in San Diego, but I have probably a little over 20 years of experience in the architecture industry. And I think at this point, I've come to understand and appreciate the diversity of styles. so I'm happy to be working in a craftsman style or a mission revival style. There are some styles that would be definitely challenging for me to work in, and I don't know if they're, if they would nec-necessarily be appropriate. like Victorian, for example, is a beautiful architectural style. but I would be very apprehensive to take on a project in that style because I think it's very specific, and it would take a lot of detailing. And, then you have another style like mid-century modern. I would love to do a mid-century modern style home. But it's harder to do mid-century modern style homes in, uh, 2026. Generally, they're single story. That can be difficult when you're doing an infill, infill project in the city of San Diego, like we typically do and I think it may be actually cost prohibitive to do a mid-century modern style building these days, uh, although I would love to take on one of those. and then like Art Deco, I don't know if I would ever do an Art Deco style home. yeah, there's just certain styles I would be really apprehensive about. But over the years, my taste has changed as we've experienced new projects, as we've researched for new projects, and as we've moved into different homes which have different features and just different configurations. And all of that stuff just kind of like goes into my head and then starts to change the ideals that I came out of college with, which, in hindsight were a little naive. gaining that experience over the last 20 years has certainly shifted my perception on what is the appropriate architectural style. And unfortunately, this is an unsatisfying answer, but if you ask me like what is the appropriate architectural style? I'd have to say, well, it's kind of site specific, so it depends. It's a project-by-project basis. If I'm doing an ADU behind a craftsman home, I'm probably gonna try to lean towards that craftsman style architecture. And if I'm doing a home that's a completely introverted home because for whatever reason, the neighbors are not ideal to live next to, and we can do these types of homes in some of the Southeast San Diego neighborhoods, then maybe I would lean towards modernism because that would be a style that would allow you to design a home that like looks into a singular courtyard where you can't really do that with a craftsman style home or a Spanish style home.

07:01BaileyThat all makes sense. I think it's important, like you alluded to, to keep an open mind, and then ultimately evolve your tastes based on a bunch of different design styles and come up with your own unique, design preference and aesthetic. But

07:16Sean CanningYeah,

07:16BaileyI remember when you were in architecture school, and I was, like, nine years old, and you were already telling me about form follows function and the removal of unnecessary ornaments.

So, it goes way back with you

07:28Sean CanningAlso, Billy, if you look at, Frank Lloyd Wright's career, he had, two or three distinct styles, the projects he was finishing at the end of his career look really nothing like the projects like Fallingwater that he's known for. so even the most famous and the most revered architects have a, a change of style throughout their career

07:51BaileyDefinitely. And you see that in a lot of different artistic professions, like music, for example.

Transitioning out of design though, so what percentage of your job is based on the design side working for clients, and then what part of the job is the project management side?

So whether that be with, with the contractors, the client management, or even the city, what does that split look like?

08:14Sean CanningWell, I do way less design than I would like to do, and I do way less design than I expected coming out of college. That's for sure. Margaret's specialty is project management, so she can bear a lot of the project management work, dealing with the city, handling emails and communication from the clients and things like that. And I handle a lot of the marketing, like this type of video. would say we're doing probably 20 to 25% of our weekly work hours in the design realm. And my preference would be to, you know, do like 75%, like the inverse basically. But it just doesn't work out that way. one thing that I think a lot of people don't realize about architects is, the true profession, is really a lot closer to a project management service than it is to a design service. Because, traditionally the architect is like the nucleus of the design team. the architect would first meet with the clients and then design the projects. But then after it's designed, they would manage the engineering that's required, so maybe structural engineering, maybe some civil engineering.

In California, we have a lot of energy reports that have to happen, which are referred to as Title 24 reports. So we manage all the peripheral things, then we manage the permitting. And then during the construction phase, depending on the level of detail of the project, we're gonna spend different amounts of time the project site. So you look at it like that, there's that 20% of design on the front end, but the majority of what an architect's role is is really a lot closer to a project manager than a designer. We're like a project manager who also does design and is supposed to be an expert at design.

10:03BaileyGot it.

And then I think when it comes to the design work architects do, most people think of the final renderings, for example, and then ultimately the finished portfolio projects. But before the renderings, what exactly does the design process actually look like? So what does the day-to-day design work look like to ultimately produce, those high-quality renderings?

10:24Sean CanningWell, it starts with, a set of as-built plans. So you have to have, a survey, so you understand, the lot lines, and then you do research, and you understand the setbacks and the height limitation and the floor area ratio limitation. That's like the maximum square footage you could build. And these days, there's like an infinite amount of restrictions on your project, so you have to understand all of those things. And then you take your best shot at the design, but you, you're not gonna go all the way to like a complete... a completely detailed project. You wanna kinda move it along slowly.

So you'll do a design which will loosely show your ideas, and then you'll meet with the client and make sure they agree with those ideas, so you can continue heading in that direction. But more often than not, the client's gonna agree with some of the ideas and have his own opinions on other ideas, which is completely normal and reasonable. And then, you've taken the design 50% of the way in one direction, and then all of a sudden you gotta go in a little bit of a different direction, which is part of the iterative process of design. And then we'll redesign it up to maybe like a level, and then we'll meet with the client again and make sure we're still headed in the right direction, and then we'll just continue that process. So on the smaller projects, we can do two to three iterations, and if I'm doing a large custom home, we're probably gonna end up with somewhere between three and five iterations. it depends on the client, how specific they want the design to be to their taste. We have a lot of clients actually, that just say, "Hey, design it any way you want because you're the expert." And we also appreciate working with those types of clients. And then once the design is finalized, that's where the management of the engineering comes in, and then the permitting, and then the construction. And somewhere in between that, there's a whole bunch of smaller steps like, maybe the living room, we wanna design like a built-in bookcase with a TV console, or maybe the kitchen needs another level of design. So we can get into the level of details that are needed on a project like that. I don't like to get into that level of detail until we have at least the first round plan check comments. Because the building department in the city of San Diego is getting a lot more variable, and they have unique interpretations of the written code, which is hard for us to understand. So it's good to get to that step, understand what parts of the project will be accepted and what parts of the project need to be, redesigned. And then once you get there, you can start getting into the next level of detail, which is like detailing out like the, the walls and, you know, the, the finishes. Stuff that's not required for the permit, but is required if you want the contractor to be able to build something a very s- specific way.

13:04BaileyGot it. And we'll be getting to permitting at the end, so we'll have a whole section for that. Don't worry, of course.

so why don't you talk about your background for a bit here? Because obviously everyone has their own unique background, but yours seems to be especially unique, and it also seems to be continuing to impact the types of projects and your perspective on the projects that you're doing even today

13:25Sean CanningYeah. Well, thank you for the compliment. so I noticed when we were in architecture school at NJIT that, not every one of our colleagues knew how to, build stuff, and in fact, I would say it's, probably less than 10% of our architecture colleagues were actually able to, like, take a hammer and nails and, like, something, which I thought was strange because I thought that was part of the profession.

Like, if I know how to build something, then I know how to draw and detail that thing. so you can rely on your own experience to understand how to put it together. when I'm saying I understand how to build things, it's a pretty rud-rudimentary level. I could build a tree house because I grew up doing that type of thing. I could build a dog house. That's, that would be really easy. I could build a shed. I could probably remodel a bathroom if I really had the time to do it. I can renovate a kitchen, I couldn't build an entire home because, I've just never framed anything that large, so that would be a daunting task for me. I always thought that, there was a inherent, obligation to learn how to build some things so that I can make sure that my drawings were correct. So I think what most people don't understand is that architects come from a variety of different backgrounds, and my background is building things and in, um, my mom was an artist, so I grew up always drawing things.

So I was able to combine those two things, that's how I end up being an architect who can design and also knows a little bit about construction. But a lot of our colleagues, maybe they just came from a fine arts background, where they'd never built anything. I know I had a few colleagues who could only build and just didn't have the design skill. There's a lot of architects who can't hand draw, so they do everything on the computer, and maybe that's the next generation of architects. so I think the thing that a lot of people don't realize is that there's there's a huge, diverse group of architects, and we all bring our own unique skills to the table, and I've tried to build my skills in a direction that really helps aid the services that we provide, which is, like, small infill residential architecture.

15:35Baileyyou don't need to be modest. you're extremely handy, I would say. You're like a mad scientist almost when it comes to being able to do all these home construction projects. But I can definitely see how you, with your background, you're able to marry, the theory with the practicality of actually getting it done.

So I think that's the essential key part there.

say you enter a space, what would you say are some of the things that you're able to see as an architect that the general layperson isn't able to see, and how does this actually help you with, eventually developing a space?

16:07Sean CanningOkay. Well, let me start with, there's this thing, I don't know, probably you wouldn't understand this, but most, architects, we walk into a space like a restaurant, You'll know you're at a restaurant with an architect if the first thing they do is look up at the ceiling. Because, every time Margaret and I walk into, like a brewery or a restaurant, the first thing we're doing is like, "Wow," like, "Look at this space." And we're trying to, analyze everything else. And we notice everybody else we're there with that are not in the industry are just, looking at the hostess, following them to the seat.

But, yeah, you'll know you're at a restaurant with an architect if they're staring at the ceiling when they walk in. So when I'm looking at a set of drawings, I'm trying to think, two or three steps ahead. So the first thing I'm looking at, a set of floor plans is really clear about, what size the spaces are, where the doors are, so I think that's fairly clear,

maybe I'm taking this for granted a little bit because I do spend, 40 hours a week looking at these plans. let's say I'm looking at a bedroom that's dimensioned at 10 by 12. I know what that feels like, because when I'm walking around real life, I'm trying to understand what these spaces feel like.

So I'm like, "Okay, well, what is my bedroom? Okay, my bedroom's, like, 14 by 10." So I have, in my mind when I'm designing a bedroom, "Okay, if I design it this size, it's going to relatively feel like this room that I'm already familiar with." So spent the last 20 years trying to log those things in my mind. And then the next level of thing I'm thinking about is the ceiling. Like, is this an eight-foot ceiling? Is it a nine-foot ceiling? Is it a sloped ceiling? Is there a vault in the roof that I can then make work on the ceiling? So When I'm designing a floor plan, I'm also considering the roof plan, because if I can make the roof ridges and valleys align with the walls on the floor plan, then we can do really cool stuff with the ceiling by vaulting the roof and the ceiling. and then the next level on that is gonna be where the windows go for the proper solar orientation, because a window on the north wall is going to work completely different than a window on the south wall, same with east and west. And then I'm also thinking about where the utilities are gonna go.

So is there an efficiency of plumbing? Does the mechanical system have a pathway so it can reach all the rooms, or are we just doing mini-splits which don't need ducting? And, where's the electrical box gonna go, and those types of things. So I guess to summarize this, I'm always trying to imagine the spaces in three dimensions, and I'm always trying to...

a lot of times when I'm looking at a floor plan, I know that it's not completely developed yet, so there's gonna be a next level of detail we're gonna be layering on, which is often gonna be the mechanical systems, and I'm trying to plan ahead for that. when we're working with a client, sometimes a client is not understanding, how the ceiling is gonna look and how that room is going to feel, and I'm trying to guide them through that process, either by using our 3D software to show them or by sometimes doing, like, renderings of the interiors of these spaces so I can show them, "Hey, this is what it's gonna look like, and this is how it's gonna feel."

19:14BaileyYeah, there's a lot that goes into it. It's very technical in many respects.

let's transition though to outside the design work though. So say when it comes to working with clients, what has been some of your big takeaways here in terms of the client relationship and, even like the therapist type role you find yourself sometimes playing?

19:33Sean CanningYeah. Okay, well, there's two parts to this. I would say the first thing is we've become really good at educating clients, because in the residential sector of architecture, don't get a lot of repeat clients. You know, most people only build their dream home one time, or most people only build an ADU behind their home for their in-laws one time. maybe you have two in-laws, maybe you need to build two. So we do get some repeat clients, but most of the people we work for, they're gonna try to build something one time, and then the rest of their life they'll never have to build anything again. So there's a lot of education that comes with that. as you can imagine, if you're working in the commercial sector and you're working with a client who's investing and redoing the same project type over and over again on different sites, there's a learning curve to that, and they know what they're looking for and what they're doing. every project that we work on, almost every project, is the first time the homeowner is doing this type of project. So we've learned how to educate the clients and how to walk them through it and hold their hand, and we expect this because it is part of the process. Now, the other thing I wanna mention we do work for, husband and wife couples, or just couples in general, a lot. when everybody builds their dream home, you know, they want it to be perfect. But not all of the couples we work for agree on every component It's not therapy, but I would say like mediation that occurs in, in this setting. and a lot of times one of the clients is more dominant than the other, so that person can have a tendency to get more of their opinions in the meeting. we wanna make sure in those cases that we're always asking the other client, "Hey, do-- What do you think about this? Do you agree with this?" I'll give you an example just to make it super simple. Let's say you're designing a two-story home, and there's a question of whether the bedrooms go on the second floor or the bedrooms go on the first floor. There's pros and cons to both of these. Conventionally, you would have the bedrooms on the second floor, but there are scenarios where a reverse floor plan may make more sense. And if you're working on a project where the reverse floor plan may make more sense, you wanna present both options. And one homeowner, one part of the couple may agree one way, and the other agrees with the other layout. So then you start to discuss, okay, what are the pros and cons of this, and what are the pros and cons of that? you ask the clients if they agree with what you've listed as the pros and cons, and then you ask them to evaluate the pros and cons and figure out what's best for them. And then ultimately, there's gotta be a consensus, because otherwise somebody's not gonna be happy. And when people are paying as much as it costs to build these projects, you wanna make sure people are happy. that's where the, mediation part of our job lies, and most of our projects have a component of that most of our projects we're working for couples.

22:23Baileynow to transition to interior design. So I guess what are your thoughts on interior design, and how do you approach interior design? I think people would be surprised to know, at least this is my, take from what I've witnessed, is that the architects actually don't generally have a very strong expertise in interior design, at least not as much as you would think given how s- you know, complementary the fields are

22:46Sean CanningYeah. So within the context of the architect as the project manager, bringing in other professionals, like an interior designer or a landscape designer, can really elevate the project quite a lot. And I think not everybody really understands how much an interior designer can bring to the table. And also, there can be a little bit of a conflict or, like friction when an interior designer comes into the project. interior design is, from my experience working with interior designers, there's like a broad range of how they work. And we work with some interior designers that only wanna pick colors and furniture, and we work with other interior designers that wanna start moving windows around and, moving walls around and things like that.

So there's like a huge spectrum of interior designers. Generally, when you have an interior design on the project, you're gonna end up with a better final product than if you don't. and a lot of times one of the homeowners or one of the clients will say, like they can do their own interior design, and sometimes that's true, and other times it's not true. they overestimate their skills as an interior designer. But I will say the one through line that I've noticed when I'm working with interior designers or when I'm working with clients who want a specific style of design, is we're hearing like crazy terms for what they're looking for. So like farmhouse modern is one that I think a lot of people realize. But, we'll hear like, "Hey, I'm really looking for like bohemian loft." like that just doesn't appear in the history of architecture books that we study. Like it's just not a thing. And maybe it's becoming more of a thing like on Instagram, where people are tagging these different interior design styles. But, you know, I've heard like contemporary French. Like what does that mean? Like I don't know what that means. If you show me photos, I can figure out what they're doing. like, okay, they're using these colors, they're accenting these features, they're adding details in these areas, they're arching doorways instead of, you know, having them squared off, different things like that. But as an architect, we study the different architectural styles, and then you get down into what the principles are that make those architectural styles. So why does a Spanish home have arches? Because they didn't have b... They weren't using beams. They were using the arch as a structural system. Or, um, why do certain homes have big front porches?

Because they were trying to shade the windows in the front because there was no air conditioning at the time or something like that. So you get into understanding the principles of the architectural style. So if somebody says, "Design me a, uh, Spanish colonial style home," well, I'm like, "Okay, well, here's five principles I can use.

And when I design the home and make it use the materials that are traditional in that style, it's gonna look like that." somebody says, "Design me a, modern Spanish home," like that's a little bit more vague. So I would ask to see like a bunch of Pinterest or Instagram photos, and then I can figure out what they're looking for. also one more important differentiation, because we do offer an architectural interior service for our more detailed projects, but it's not a conflict with what the interior designers are providing. So when I'm doing architectural interiors, what I'm doing is I'm providing more details for things on the inside, which could be like shelving or recessed nooks, maybe like a breakfast area, a kitchen, a bathroom. More architectural details than are required for permitting, but are helpful to get the project built to look a certain way. 'Cause if you leave it up to the contractor, it doesn't always come out the way you think it's gonna come out. then what an interior designer would do is they would come in and specify the tile or the paint color on the wall or bring in furniture, and those are skills, especially the furniture, those are skills that an architect generally is not gonna be great at

26:36BaileyYeah, it's very interesting how the two professions or fields play complementary with one another. But also, like you were alluding to, it's interesting how the constraints of the site or the home itself influence the interior design style, but the constraints actually lead to creative solutions, in like the different examples like we talked about.

let's talk about drawing now. historically people have thought about architects doing like the draft type work in like a very romantic sense, but does that still happen anymore or are you just sitting at a computer all day mostly?

27:08Sean CanningI may be the last generation of architects that knows how to draw. not so sure that's a true statement. But so I'm 43 years old, and I grew up drawing, and through architecture s-school, we were required to draw. I could put together a set of hand drawings for a project if I really needed to. But these days with CAD software, like no-nobody would submit a set of hand-drawn construction documents. the reason for that is because, while it still takes approximately the same time to put the set of drawings together, the big differences are how fast you can make changes. if the building department is like, "Hey, this room needs to be two feet shorter, so you have to move this wall two feet," that would be almost impossible to do with a hand-drawn set of drawings. But with a, with a computer-drawn set of drawings, I can make that change in probably a few hours, so m-maybe less. computer-aided drafting has sped up the revision process quite a bit. when I look at my own work, how much am I actually hand drawing? would say it's, incredibly rare. So when I'm working on a project actively, I'm really not hand drawing that project. I'm working on it on the computer. Sometimes I will print it out and then sketch on top of it, and that can be really helpful, especially when you're to explore different concepts, because hand drawing is a very fast way to do things. So, there's something that we call rapid prototyping, where you wanna just get 10 different options of something as fast as you can to then evaluate which ones are viable, and hand drawing is, is great for that. But where I really find myself doing the most hand drawing is when I'm not in the office and I have an idea. I wanna get it down on paper as fast as possible. I grab my sketchbook, and I sketch it out. that's where I'm doing the most hand drawing. It's off hours with my sketchbook, not at my desk here actively working on a project. And then I will say, just to wrap this up, I think that the next generation of architects will be doing less drawing because I don't think it's gonna be required like it was for my generation of architects. Now, you may still get into the profession because you're good at drawing, then you'll get people who still have the skill. But I think it's going to be, and less of a skill as technology continues to improve.

29:38BaileyI agree with that. When it comes to the, software stack you actually use, what does that look like? Because you've talked about how you're required to use a lot of different software programs for various different aspects of the project, but

29:51Sean CanningMhm

29:51Baileyof them don't actually help you develop the design necessarily.

29:55Sean CanningYeah. So the software in our industry is like it just leaves so much to be desired. You have a couple, huge software companies. So everybody was familiar with CAD software, Autodesk. That was like the standard. And now Autodesk makes Revit, which is like the information modeling software, which is the current industry standard, so that's called BIM. And what you can do is model things in 3D and then extrapolate two-dimensional drawings, like a floor plan or an elevation from the 3D model, which is really helpful because then you can use the 3D model to start doing renderings. the old school way to do it would be you draw everything in 2D, and then you'd have to take another step and build a model so you can do the renderings. But now most people are building things in 3D and pulling out the two-dimensional drawings you need to, to create a set of drawings that a contractor can build from. A contractor can't build from a 3D model, at least not yet. They're building from the two-dimensional drawings. Now, the problem with this is, Revit has a monopoly on the industry, so there's very little incentive for them to improve. And if you are using Revit Oftentimes you're going from Revit into Photoshop into some other software to just create a drawing that looks like a nice rendering. Like if the clients just wanna see flat orthographic elevations, you can get there with the industry standard Revit software. But if the clients wanna see like a really beautiful rendering or even just like a presentation style elevation, you're going through three or four different types of softwares to get there. There is no software in our industry that like comprehensively covers everything. Now, we have a little bit of a different process because I really don't like Revit very much, and I'm a huge SketchUp fan. So we use a proprietary SketchUp process. You could look this up, it's called Kondok, there's a guy named Michael Brightman who's invented the process. But essentially we're building the project in 3D, and then we're slicing it to create two-dimensional images. So we'll go from SketchUp into that's where we're doing the 3D work, and then we're going into SketchUp layout where we're doing the 2D work, and then if we want to produce either gonna bring that into Lumion or we're gonna use a different type of AI software to help us speed up the rendering process, which is becoming more and more, the common practice. right there you have a minimum of three softwares, and a lot of times we have to take it to Photoshop to get like a interesting background or to add like people or things like that. And sometimes you'd have to use Adobe Illustrator, and then later on you're bringing it into a presentation software like Canva, or we used to use PowerPoint. So unfortunately, there's just no comprehensive software, and maybe in the future there will be. But right now, most architects are probably using about a half dozen types of software, not including like Word and, the standards, the standard things.

32:54BaileyYeah, you have to be very tech-savvy with the computer programs these days if you want to be, an architect and working with clients in a modern sense.

33:03Sean CanningMm-hmm

33:03BaileyLet's talk about math though. So for example, I guess there's a myth or, an urban legend in a way that you need to be good at math if you actually want to be an architect.

Is that true? What was your experience with math growing up?

33:16Sean CanningYeah. So I think this is one of the biggest, misconceptions that people need to be good at math to be an architect. I think most of the math we're doing is very rudimentary. and I'll tell you what I had to do in terms of college-based math programs, and then you let me know if I'm underestimating my math skills or not. so I had to take basically nine math classes in five years of college. So it's like two algebra, two calculus, two, physics, then like three applied physics classes, which were basically structure classes, which is like how structures work, but using physics to explain how they work. Which the applied physics classes, which were our structural classes, were certainly the hardest ones. But in my day-to-day profession, I'm using basic multiplication, division, geometry, is like, I don't know, seems to come fairly easily to me. and then just basic math on a day-to-day basis. we have a structural engineer who does all the more complicated math. So yeah, it was nine math classes in a five-year curriculum. I mean, do you think that's a lot of math?

34:23BaileyI think that's a lot of math. in college I took one math class, for example, with a business degree,

34:29Sean CanningHmm.

34:30Baileyit was just like standard calculus, which I never use ever. So

34:34Sean CanningYeah,

34:35BaileyI would say you've got a pretty solid math background

34:37Sean CanningBut four of these classes were like algebra and calculus, which are, fairly... They weren't super difficult, and I was like a B student in math in high school, so I'm not a great math student

34:48BaileyHmm. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like math is one of those things where, you either get it or you don't, in a way. You know? It either comes naturally or it doesn't

34:56Sean CanningBut maybe the thing that's safe to say is whatever level of math you're required to take for your major in college, usually your, the math in the profession is a, at least a step down from that

35:06BaileyYeah, 100%, definitely.

all right, and then the last one here, obviously had to close it out with this one, and that is gonna be permitting. So in terms of the overall day-to-day work, when it comes to actually getting a project built, how much of it is actually the design work that you're doing as the architect, and then how much of it is actually just managing the project on the permitting side so that it can actually get built at the end of the day?

35:31Sean CanningYeah. Okay. Well, if you're watching this video and you don't live in California, I should state, like we are permitting projects in City of San Diego in California. So we're in the major leagues of permitting here. We have the most regulation of any state basically, and we have a building department that is constantly changing the code and constantly reinterpreting the way they used to interpret the code, which, keeps us on our toes, to say the least. we never had a single permitting class in college. I don't even know if it ever came up in five years of architecture school. if somebody would've told me how much permitting we would've had to do to get these projects built, I may have switched majors, to be honest. because it's the worst part of our job,

on every project, So we've reached a huge milestone in San Diego, right? Like right now, it can cost more to permit a project than it can cost to hire an architect to design your project. it can take longer permit your project than it can take a contractor to build your project. So we've reached a new level of regulation. none of it's fun. None of it helps projects get built. No project ever gets better because they pay more or they take longer in permitting. so it's a huge issue. And yeah, we're spending, four months designing and engineering a project, and we're spending eight months permitting a project. Now, that's not eight... We're not working as much in that eight months. It's a lot of like hurry up and wait type of work. but, most projects will have to commit probably about 50 hours of work over the span of that eight months to permitting, and most of that is just paperwork. none of it makes the project better. just makes the project more expensive and harder and harder to build.

37:24Baileypermitting's like the final boss battle of the project, essentially. That's like the hardest part

37:30Sean CanningYou know, I was actually about that exact same analogy, I could break it down a level to that. Like, when you submit your project for permitting, it goes to, it gets routed to, like, eight to 12 different departments. And I would say the structural engineering department is the final boss battle of permitting because they're the ones who have the most, they review the most critical things. And I would say the planning department is like... I was trying to find an analogy for this. Is there any, game where, you think you beat the final boss, but then there's another boss?

38:03Baileyme sometimes

38:05Sean CanningAnd so that's planning. you think everything is headed in the right direction, you think you're at the finish line, and then all of a sudden planning is like, "No, I know that's what the municipal code says, but we have had internal conversations that you're not privy of, and we've determined even though your code meets all of the written requirements, that we're interpreting this in a different way."

And then you get like booted all the way back to the beginning of the level.

38:33BaileyIt's like the sudden death overtime

38:35Sean Canningthe sudden death overtime, yeah. so planning and, structural are the hardest bosses in, in the game. And, and then once you beat all of the bosses, you still haven't finished the game 'cause you still gotta build it. So it's a long...

38:51BaileyThat's true. That's true.

38:52Sean CanningThere's a lot going on.

38:53BaileyYeah, for sure. Lots of moving parts

38:55Sean Canningyeah, to wrap this up, they do not tell us about permitting in college. You learn it all on the job. most projects in California are taking a long, long time to permit, and they're gonna cost more than you expect to permit, unfortunately. I think there's a movement to start to deregulate a little bit. I think there's a little bit of a groundswell as more and more reports come out and show how few homes are getting built in comparison to how many homes the state wants to get built or how much the state says we need to build. So I think there's going to be a little bit of a movement to deregulate a little, which I would appreciate if that happens. and also, I just wanna say, I'm not an advocate to make things less safe. there's just a diminishing point of returns with the amount of regulation in comparison to the amount of safety we're achieving when you compare it to other, other states that don't have as much regulation.

Like California homes are not more safe than other states.

39:56BaileyYeah, it's a nuanced conversation. We'll probably have future episodes talking about that. But in the meantime, I'll also link some more videos people can watch right after this one about different permitting scenarios we've covered on the channel here. But I think that's a good place to leave it. Sean, how,

would you recommend people learn more about 1070 Architecture and then the different ways they can get involved with a project or maybe even just get some consulting type advice if they need it?

40:23Sean CanningWell, the best way to get in touch with me, first off, visit the website, 1070architecture.com. It was just redesigned, so you'll be able to check out our latest projects and everything. And if you scroll down to the bottom of the website, there's a form you can fill out with a project survey, and that'll give you a link to book a discovery call, and that's a no-obligation discovery call where we can review your project, see if we're a good fit for the project. that would be the best way. But if you wanna cut to the chase, you can also just shoot me an email at Sean, S-E-A-N, @1070architecture.com. And don't forget to check out our Instagram, where we have a lot more projects posted than you'll find on the website, and that is @1070architecture